I seriously doubt any spirits exist with the nature and capability most people consider a god to have. I’m convinced of that, but I don’t know and neither do you. If either of us could prove it, one way or the other, we would certainly tell all and put the great debate to rest. But callers keep trying to do so, and they keep Matt busy on The Atheist Experience.
Many true believers still would dig in if we could prove the negative hypothesis, but if God were proven to exist, the I told ya so’s would flow like Niagara Falls.
I claim to be atheist, but I am also (in my opinion, we are all) agnostic. How so? Because not one of us can possibly ever know if there is a spiritual god.
That is the essence of the biblical golden calf in Exodus 32 and I Kings 12. The calf is supposed to be the supreme act of apostasy. It is, for the people in the story. It’s the rejection of a faith once confessed. Moses seemed to be lost. Was he talking or toking with the Father up on the mountain with the burning bush?
It was a biblical metaphor. Everyone knew the calf was not a god. It was a man-made statue. Aaron, Moses’s brother, was the maker of the object, which was apparently decided democratically by the people. But this is bible stuff, not history. I don’t want to ponder there.
The great sin, for which they were allegedly killed, was loss of faith or belief. Jewish (and Christian) scripture is replete with hate toward non-believers and apostates. Biblically, killing us not only acceptable, it’s also God’s will.
And for what? Thought crimes? Having a different opinion? Remember, believers of other religions (or denominations) are also damned as evil and justly subject to eternal you-know-what. Kill them all! (Sarcasm, mine.)
This unfair and stupid opinion thus becomes a lie believers can scripturally attribute to God (or Allah, if you’re in that lane). I have been told that I am “one of the good ones.” She knew me and decided I was an exception. The implication is that others who do not believe in some god or religion are evil and do harm. Without any evidence, people of other religions or of none, people who’s only crime is to point out that the king has no clothes, are recreated as evil. That moniker is not for doing any crime or moral wrong. It’s for having a different opinion.
And yes, we resent it.
Bill
Dispassionate Doubt 
“Because not one of us can possibly ever know if there is a spiritual god.”
I think it’s somewhat illogical to say that one can NEVER know if there is a spiritual god or not and then claim that there CAN be somehow. If there is something we can NEVER know it can only be because there is simply no evidence that supports that conclusion. In the case of a supernatural being (I really rather detest the “god” title) the conclusion you draw is simply due to the complete ABSENCE of any identifiable evidence – not even a scintilla exists – of supporting data. How many other things can you think of that CAN NEVER be known, either in favor or against the premise? Your statement is one reason – the ONLY reason, in my opinion – why we continuously hear the counter argument from the believer community that we can never know therefore there MAY be such an entity.
No, sorry. The ABSOLUTE absence of evidence IS evidence of absence and we need to shut that ridiculous argument down in its’ tracks.
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I’m not sure what logic fallacy I violated. But since you claim to be absolutely certain of something I am not, I stand corrected. As far as shutting down religion, Dream On. But “hell yes” if we can.
I confess that when I wrote that sentence, I expected it to draw fire. 🙂
Good to hear from you. It’s been a while. (not using that title you so detest).
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No, I am not an “agnostic.” I have no idea what a “spiritual god” could be, so it is a meaningless term. I am not waiting by the phone for a “spiritual god” to call. I know this.
Are you saying I don’t know this? Perhaps it’s a 50-50 proposition to you that something that meets your definition of a “spiritual god” arrives on your doorstep today, but that’s not the case for me.
Perhaps science can establish some different realities about our existence, but it’s running out of time. Here we are, there we go – am I missing something?
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So, you KNOW with certainty that there is or is not an invisible “unknowable” God. Sorry. I stand corrected. 🙂
I also cannot know what you might be “missing,” or even what I might be missing. (which is my point)
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What a well-written post, Bill. I cannot argue any of this. I loathe organised religion, believing they are all full of hate and ugly. I found myself enthralled in the video and had to watch it until the end. Stephen Fry is eloquent, well-spoken, intelligent, well-read. His arguments were sound and delivered so very well. Thank you for that. Your post is on par with his presentation. 🙂
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Thank you, Dale. I’m chuffed that you liked it so much. 🙂
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I’m chuffed you wrote it and shared that link 😉
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Me too. Arrived at the middle of nowhere AKA Julie’s house 🏡.
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Glad you arrived safe and sound!
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🙂
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